DAAK Foren-Übersicht DAAK
Deutscher Axis and Allies Klub
 
 FAQFAQ   SuchenSuchen   MitgliederlisteMitgliederliste   BenutzergruppenBenutzergruppen   RegistrierenRegistrieren 
 ProfilProfil   Einloggen, um private Nachrichten zu lesenEinloggen, um private Nachrichten zu lesen   LoginLogin 

Calculation of points
Gehe zu Seite 1, 2  Weiter
 
Neues Thema eröffnen   Neue Antwort erstellen    DAAK Foren-Übersicht -> English Forum
Vorheriges Thema anzeigen :: Nächstes Thema anzeigen  
Autor Nachricht
City of Finches
Gefreiter


Anmeldedatum: 14.02.2003
Beiträge: 12

BeitragVerfasst am: Fr März 07, 2003 7:23 pm    Titel: Calculation of points Antworten mit Zitat

HI All,

Can someone explain the points calculations formula?

I cant get the hang of it...

S=75+75*(d/300)

I have played 3 games

Game #1 I have 1250 points, my opponent 1035. (d=215) I win and go up 29 points to 1279. I cant get the formula to work?

Game #2 I have 1279 points and my opponent 1431. (d=152) I lose and lose 40 points to 1239. ?????

Game #3 I have 1239 points and my opponent 988. (d=251) I win and go up 24 points to 1263. But I still dont know how the formula got that number...???

Help!?

Jeff
Nach oben
Benutzer-Profile anzeigen Private Nachricht senden E-Mail senden
Magicman
Stabsfeldwebel


Anmeldedatum: 06.06.2002
Beiträge: 263
Wohnort: 72764 Reutlingen

BeitragVerfasst am: Fr März 07, 2003 8:11 pm    Titel: Re: Calculation of points Antworten mit Zitat

hi Jeff,

City of Finches hat Folgendes geschrieben:


S=75+75*(d/300)

Game #1 I have 1250 points, my opponent 1035. (d=215) I win and go up 29 points to 1279. I cant get the formula to work?

Game #2 I have 1279 points and my opponent 1431. (d=152) I lose and lose 40 points to 1239. ?????

Game #3 I have 1239 points and my opponent 988. (d=251) I win and go up 24 points to 1263. But I still dont know how the formula got that number...???


d is the difference between your and the points of your adversary.

Game 1: 1250-1035 = 215
Game 2: 1431-1279 = 152
Game 3: 1239-988 = 251

Mircea
Nach oben
Benutzer-Profile anzeigen Private Nachricht senden
jadtiger
Unteroffizier


Anmeldedatum: 09.02.2003
Beiträge: 88

BeitragVerfasst am: Fr März 07, 2003 8:25 pm    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

hi jeff,

i don't get it either. Confused

i just play and try to focus on winning. Smile

one thing i did figure out though, unlike the AAMC, is that the difference b/w your opponent and yourself is based on your ending rank, and not what you were at when you began the game. i'm not quite sure how i feel about this--but i think i'm leaning towards favoring it vs. the stated differential the AAMC system employs. overall, i think it's a fairer system.

certainly, my opponents have benefited from this. Surprised
Nach oben
Benutzer-Profile anzeigen Private Nachricht senden
City of Finches
Gefreiter


Anmeldedatum: 14.02.2003
Beiträge: 12

BeitragVerfasst am: Fr März 07, 2003 11:24 pm    Titel: Formula Antworten mit Zitat

Maybe I am not translating the formula correctly..

S = 75 + 75*(d/300)

I interpret it as.....

S = 75 + 75 times the results of the points difference between 2 players divided by 300

* means multiply...correct?

Jeff
Nach oben
Benutzer-Profile anzeigen Private Nachricht senden E-Mail senden
OpTorch
Generalmajor


Anmeldedatum: 17.06.2002
Beiträge: 902
Wohnort: Weert (NL)

BeitragVerfasst am: Fr März 07, 2003 11:33 pm    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

You are forgetting the tanh part of the formula I think:

S = 75 + 75 * tanh (d/300),

This formula results in this graph:

http://www.daak.de/rang/tanhyp.gif


OpTorch
Nach oben
Benutzer-Profile anzeigen Private Nachricht senden MSN Messenger
Lili Marleen
Generalleutnant


Anmeldedatum: 05.09.2002
Beiträge: 1064
Wohnort: Kempten

BeitragVerfasst am: Fr März 07, 2003 11:48 pm    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

jadtiger hat Folgendes geschrieben:
overall, i think it's a fairer system.


Hi Jadtiger!

Yes, I think so, too! In the AAMC system a good player like you could open numerous games with its starting 1000, 1150 or 1250 points and then benefit in all later won games from his low rating at the beginning. And this although he is meanwhile a top player.
The risk in this system is that you start games with less points against an equal rated player. Meanwhile your opponent loses i.e. 3 games, wins against you and then you lose 100 or more points.

Cheers,

Lili Very Happy
Nach oben
Benutzer-Profile anzeigen Private Nachricht senden
Panther
DAAK - VP / Vize-Verteidigungsminister


Anmeldedatum: 05.06.2002
Beiträge: 6631
Wohnort: Ismaning, Bavaria

BeitragVerfasst am: Sa März 08, 2003 12:33 am    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

OpTorch hat Folgendes geschrieben:
You are forgetting the tanh part of the formula I think:

S = 75 + 75 * tanh (d/300),

This formula results in this graph:

http://www.daak.de/rang/tanhyp.gif

OpTorch


Optorch got it.

tanh or TanHyp stands for hyperbolic tangent, a mathematical funktion. (quotient of two exponential functions). Sounds complicated? Not really, if you want, you can calculate it with a pocket calculator (ok, t has to be a scientific pocket calculator Smile )
If anyone is interested I can send him the original Excel file I made when developing that formula. There is also the graph Optorch mentioned, but in Excel it shows the exact amount of point you gain fo any given difference.


As for calculating the points at the end game: This has pro´s and con´s. One big advantage is that players cannot "optimize" their choice of opponents too much for getting maximal points.
The very best thing would be calculating the points for a game not in the beginning and not in the end but somewhere in the middle. Better said the average points a player has in the course of the game. As I made this proposal to our programmers they wanted to beat me so I better dont repeat it Wink
_________________
Würfel sind nichts anderes als Foltergeräte in Miniaturausgabe, die von hinterhältigen Sadisten entwickelt wurden um Strategiespieler zu quälen!
Nach oben
Benutzer-Profile anzeigen Private Nachricht senden
Panther
DAAK - VP / Vize-Verteidigungsminister


Anmeldedatum: 05.06.2002
Beiträge: 6631
Wohnort: Ismaning, Bavaria

BeitragVerfasst am: Sa März 08, 2003 12:38 am    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

jadtiger hat Folgendes geschrieben:


i don't get it either. Confused

i just play and try to focus on winning. Smile



And now you are on position 4 on the point based list!

I would like to see you more mulling over the ranking system instead of winning so much games . angel
_________________
Würfel sind nichts anderes als Foltergeräte in Miniaturausgabe, die von hinterhältigen Sadisten entwickelt wurden um Strategiespieler zu quälen!
Nach oben
Benutzer-Profile anzeigen Private Nachricht senden
jadtiger
Unteroffizier


Anmeldedatum: 09.02.2003
Beiträge: 88

BeitragVerfasst am: Do März 20, 2003 4:58 pm    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

Panther hat Folgendes geschrieben:
jadtiger hat Folgendes geschrieben:


i don't get it either. Confused

i just play and try to focus on winning. Smile



And now you are on position 4 on the point based list!

I would like to see you more mulling over the ranking system instead of winning so much games . angel



hi panther,

i'm number 3 now, but whose keeping track, eh? Wink

but i'm not sure for how much longer though... i'm in some very close matches right now, and i started new games against aster and lili. Shocked

i do have a question, why are there two different ranking systems? in the regular list, despite being over 1600 pts, i'm not in the top 10.
Nach oben
Benutzer-Profile anzeigen Private Nachricht senden
Lili Marleen
Generalleutnant


Anmeldedatum: 05.09.2002
Beiträge: 1064
Wohnort: Kempten

BeitragVerfasst am: Do März 20, 2003 6:27 pm    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

jadtiger hat Folgendes geschrieben:
i do have a question, why are there two different ranking systems? in the regular list, despite being over 1600 pts, i'm not in the top 10.


Very good question! Or what do you think Panther? Laughing

Cheers,

Lili Very Happy
Nach oben
Benutzer-Profile anzeigen Private Nachricht senden
Panther
DAAK - VP / Vize-Verteidigungsminister


Anmeldedatum: 05.06.2002
Beiträge: 6631
Wohnort: Ismaning, Bavaria

BeitragVerfasst am: Do März 20, 2003 6:46 pm    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

jadtiger hat Folgendes geschrieben:


hi panther,

i'm number 3 now, but whose keeping track, eh? Wink

but i'm not sure for how much longer though... i'm in some very close matches right now, and i started new games against aster and lili. Shocked

i do have a question, why are there two different ranking systems? in the regular list, despite being over 1600 pts, i'm not in the top 10.


Well, the first list is sorted by ranks not points. Since you only have 14 games your rank is only Major. To qualify for a General you need 1660 points as well as 20 games finished. But I guess it would not take you long to make another six games, no?
Of course you also need to stay above 1600 points... Cool

The were two main reasons to implement the mimimum games requirement for achieving certain ranks:
1. To encourage players to make many games.
2. Since we rate experienced new players with 1150 or even 1250 points at start it would seem unfair to other members if these players would rank in Top 25 or higher without playing a single game.

There was a third reason the board had at the time this was implemented. They worried about some experienced newbie could make it to the very top in only 6 or 7 games with the (at that time) new system.
You are the best example that this is not possible:
You started with 1250 and needed 13 out of 14 to make it to the third position. This is an effect of the TanHyp system as well as of the fact that we calculate game differences at the end of the game.
I think there will be not too many players achieving more than 1600 points.
_________________
Würfel sind nichts anderes als Foltergeräte in Miniaturausgabe, die von hinterhältigen Sadisten entwickelt wurden um Strategiespieler zu quälen!
Nach oben
Benutzer-Profile anzeigen Private Nachricht senden
Lili Marleen
Generalleutnant


Anmeldedatum: 05.09.2002
Beiträge: 1064
Wohnort: Kempten

BeitragVerfasst am: Fr März 21, 2003 4:48 pm    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

But there´s still the question: Which is the decisive ranking list? In Jadtigers example: Is he No. 15 or something like that OR No. 3 with his 1600 points?

Cheers,

Lili Very Happy
Nach oben
Benutzer-Profile anzeigen Private Nachricht senden
jadtiger
Unteroffizier


Anmeldedatum: 09.02.2003
Beiträge: 88

BeitragVerfasst am: Sa März 22, 2003 5:04 pm    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

Zitat:
But I guess it would not take you long to make another six games, no?


playing 6 more games will be no problem. winning six straight, now that's a different story. Smile

Zitat:
But there´s still the question: Which is the decisive ranking list?


lili raises a good question. aren't there some who might disregard the ranks based list in favor of the pts based list?

also, hypothetically, let's say that you or el suprimo (the club's only 4 star generals) lose two consecutive games, and drop from 1650 to 1400. do you suddenly lose your generalship and drop down to the level of colonel? is there anything to show the highest level you once achieved, even if you are no longer there?

the AAMC uses this system, and there is an inflation of 3 star generals (30-40 active members) for what actual slots there should be (around 20 or so, if you go by the pts needed to qualify). on the other hand, you want your deeds to be remembered, especially since it is difficult to reach the high ranks, and once you are there it is very easy to lose a lot of pts for a single loss (up to 150+), while earning very few for your victories. wouldn't using a pts based system as the official list (since it may already be anyways) and also having a highest rank achieved list to show the history of the club be a way to make everyone happy?
Nach oben
Benutzer-Profile anzeigen Private Nachricht senden
Zappster
Oberstleutnant


Anmeldedatum: 05.06.2002
Beiträge: 624
Wohnort: Braunschweig

BeitragVerfasst am: Sa März 22, 2003 6:17 pm    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

Zitat:
Which is the decisive ranking list?


The ranking by played games & points (=ranks)

If you reach the rank of an general, you'll get a DAAK Medal (-> in your profile)

Zappster
_________________
"Die beiden häufigsten Elemente im Universum sind Wasserstoff und Dummheit." - Albert Einstein
Nach oben
Benutzer-Profile anzeigen Private Nachricht senden Website dieses Benutzers besuchen
Panther
DAAK - VP / Vize-Verteidigungsminister


Anmeldedatum: 05.06.2002
Beiträge: 6631
Wohnort: Ismaning, Bavaria

BeitragVerfasst am: Sa März 22, 2003 9:43 pm    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

Zappster hat Folgendes geschrieben:
Zitat:
Which is the decisive ranking list?


The ranking by played games & points (=ranks)

Zappster


Says who???
_________________
Würfel sind nichts anderes als Foltergeräte in Miniaturausgabe, die von hinterhältigen Sadisten entwickelt wurden um Strategiespieler zu quälen!
Nach oben
Benutzer-Profile anzeigen Private Nachricht senden
Beiträge der letzten Zeit anzeigen:   
Neues Thema eröffnen   Neue Antwort erstellen    DAAK Foren-Übersicht -> English Forum Alle Zeiten sind GMT + 1 Stunde
Gehe zu Seite 1, 2  Weiter
Seite 1 von 2

 
Gehe zu:  
Du kannst keine Beiträge in dieses Forum schreiben.
Du kannst auf Beiträge in diesem Forum nicht antworten.
Du kannst deine Beiträge in diesem Forum nicht bearbeiten.
Du kannst deine Beiträge in diesem Forum nicht löschen.
Du kannst an Umfragen in diesem Forum nicht teilnehmen.


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Deutsche Übersetzung von phpBB.de